Oliver Kamm Serves Imperialism Shocker
Vile, on so many levels. Curious how what is commonly considered unlistenable by mandarin columnists and uppity neocons was perfectly palatable to working class scousers, trumpet players from St Louis, etc...something pointed out by the following exemplary letter:
Ivan Hewett suggests that Karlheinz Stockhausen (Obituary, December 8) became a marginal figure in the last 25 years of his life. This may have been true within the death-wish milieu of classical music, but in more dynamic regions, the opposite was the case. The sustained diffusion of his ideas, initially through key artists such as Miles Davis, The Beatles and Kraftwerk, means that the Stockhausen influence is evident in our contemporary sound world. Whether we are listening to Wu-Tang Clan, Sparklehorse or Kylie Minogue, we hear significant traces of Stockhausen's innovative genius.
David Toop
London
posted by owen hatherley at 2:43 pm
23 Comments:
In case you missed it:
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=13734
I find the best way to think of Kamm is with a red nose and clown shoes on. Being eaten by an angry Lion maybe.
Kamm is just appalling, one of the worst of that whole bunch of PB cocksuckers.
He writes:
"But not everything is possible in music, any more than it is in poetry. If you read a poem you need, at a minimum, to be able to understand the language in which it is written."
I suppose it would be a bit much to expect someone like Kamm to be familiar with Hugo Ball's dadaist sound poetry. He would no doubt find it unsavoury and propose that people ought to write 'proper poems'like Wordsworth (the late, conservative Wordsworth obviously, not the young radical, literary convention-challenging Wordsworth, far too scary).
I've often thought that someone should invite the RZA down to IRCAM to do a few workshops.
Yes, I've always admired Kylie's adaptation of serialism, and in particular her use of the note-row in 'I Should Be So Lucky'. Pleeeaaaassseee.......
By the way, maybe somebody should tell Mr. Toop before he starts making sweeping and fatuous statements merely because he thinks nobody has the time or energy to challenge them that the only discernible evidence of KS's influence on The Beatles was in 'Revolution 9', which was all Lennon and Yoko's idea anyway. Oh yes, and he appeared on the cover of 'Sgt. Pepper'.
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Revolution 9 is the only track that specifically sounds like Stockhausen, but it was McCartney not Lennon who first discovered him (John seems to have hijacked the 'musically radical Beatle' title) and he was one of a number of musicians who enabled the Beatles to think beyond their pre-65 style and emerge as a truly experimental musical force.
Plus, Stockhausen gives rise to Kraftwerk gives rise to techno gives rise to "Can't get you out of my head'!
how easily can i find and kill this man in the name of the imagination?
any sightings?
Carl
it would be a bit much to expect someone like Kamm to be familiar with Hugo Ball's dadaist sound poetry.
Quite. Or 'jabberwocky' for that matter.
Obviously Kylie doesn't make serialist records, but as aptly pointed out above, there is a very clear line, remarked upon by all manner of folk, from Stockhausen to techno and synthpop. Also: Stockhausen's influence on the Beatles = the tape-loops on 'Tomorrow never Knows' as much as the 'Revolution 9' type farragos.
NB I'm sure the RZA must sample 'Kontakte' somewhere...
I'm not entirely sure that the german titanic modernist would have felt confortable with being one of the key influencers for the repetetive beat scene but, hey, that's life. Isn't there a whole bunch of music technology and different high music influences in the Beatles experiments? I don't see those tunes as directly influenced by Stockhausen...
Oliver Kamm has the world's most punchable face.
"Curious how what is commonly considered unlistenable by mandarin columnists and uppity neocons was perfectly palatable to working class scousers, trumpet players from St Louis"
It's not really curious at all. The majority of classical music mandarins would find the most pedestrian pop music unlistenable and untuneful, so the, I assume, political point your inferring (i.e. the working class and black jazzers get this complex stuff whereas ivory towered musos and vile neocons do not - therefore the working class are better etc...) is not really valid, or well...curious. (Apologies if I've misrepresented or misunderstood your point.)
There seems to be a plethora of professional point-missers about these days... Anyway, here's to the bleep bleep maestro, with his orange jumpers and resemblance to my father...
Anon, that is my point, and though I don't see how it's curious either (it being sarcasm) I don't see how anything you've said stops it being valid. That pop and/or jazz have been more open to new ideas than the classical establishment is a truism, no?
A couple of years ago, I had the pleasure of 'watching' Stockhausen 'performing' two of his pieces (I can't remember which offhand) at the Tramway in Glasgow. Halfway through the second piece, the hushed reverence was breached with a shout of, "Aw man, this is baws, ge'ez somethin' wi' a fuckin' tune", before the culprit was dragged off by the arms with his feet trailing. No more considered than Kamm's unpleasant rant, but it expressed its essence in an infinitely more concise, eloquent and contextually-relevant manner, and one free of such screaming non-sequators as:
"But not everything is possible in music, any more than it is in poetry. If you read a poem you need, at a minimum, to be able to understand the language in which it is written"
to which the obvious explanation is that Kamm's ability to understand the language in which music is written is severely under-developed. Infantilism in more sense than one...
Owen states "that pop and/or jazz have been more open to new ideas than the classical establishment is a truism" but I've long since wondered why, in the 1970's and 1980's, the broadly 'classical' (or 'serious', if you wish to take the insider's perspective) tradition abandoned the progressive techniques it had pioneered to return to assembled acoustic performance, just as figures within the world of so-called 'popular' music adopted them and progressed them toward their full development. I can only assume that it might have something to do with classical world's desperate need to provide (increasingly specious) justifications for its elevated status, which is itself its (increasingly specious) justification for its continued existance as a distinct entity.
This thing about Stockhausen's influence on pop/rock is totally overblown. Even something like 'Revolution 9' doesn't have an awful lot to do with Stockhausen - it's far more reminiscent of Cage's radio collages and cut-ups (cf., for example, Cage's Variations IV, or more particularly his Rozart Mix (1965)).
As for Krafwerk - if there's influence it's more like reverse influence, given Kraftwerk's insistence on repetitive beats and Stockhausen's stern critique of four-beat repetition. I'm wondering what it is exactly that people see in Kraftwerk that's Stockhausen-influenced. The academic experimental stuff is what Kraftwerk moved away from, after all! Someone like Iggy Pop was probably a much greater influence.
If you really want to find contemporary composers who have influenced popular music, Cage, Riley or Glass are much better bets.
I think you're mistaking 'listened to and inspired by' for 'sounds like'. Kraftwerk, the Beatles and Miles all went on record to declare their love for Stockhausen, but obviously they deviate massively from his template, rhythmically especially. But the stuff you cite (Philip Glass??) really has little more resemblance. Anyway, if there's any 50s electronic music maker that techno/electro etc actually resembles then it's Raymond Scott. But that really wasn't my point.
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